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August 29, 2007

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Impeachment of both bush and Cheney are essential. Yet Conyers is quoted as saying that the ensuing trial, if it did not succeed in the Senate, could be a disaster. I'd like to hear intelligent debate on why. It would seem to me that in such trials so much would go public with no attempt by the MSM to hide it that the Democrats would rebuild and solidify popular support for the 2008 elections no matter how the Republican senators voted.

We are seeing the fruits of politically motivated illegal domestic spying....The Dems are too dirty to pick up the scalple of Impeachment!!!!!!!!!! Isen't that right, Nancy!!!!!!

Which part of "they don't have the votes to impeach" don't you understand?

The issue is not "votes to impeach" it's "taking a stand." If significant evidence of High Crimes and Misdemeanors come out and the Republican's in Congress still back this administration..... Doesn't the public have the right to know how deep and wide the cancer spreads? If only to cut it out with the next election?

I'm betting on Lieberman. That would be the most fiendish, devilish, divisive, controversial, worst case scenario and so I'm sure it will be his first choice. Force the Democrats into the position of having to oppose 'one of their own', and at the same time end their control of the Senate since the Republican governor of his state would appoint his replacement. Perfect, sayeth Mr. Bush.

Let me say this about that.
You are no doubt right about Bush's pychology. But at some point this has got to work against him. At some point, even Lieberman's got to lose his magic with the Democrats. Basically what I'm saying is, at some point even AIPAC and the defense industry have to lose their magic with the Democrats, as the positions they take on everything from A to Z are anathema to the overwhelming majority of Democrats. At some point.

They have the votes to impeach - they only need a majority in the House. What they probably don't have is the votes to _convict_, but the public airing of all the dirty laundry of this bunch in a trial, if it weren't enough to turn enough R's, might be enough to disgust the country so thoroughly that no Republican would win the White House for at least another decade. Also, as I've heard pointed out several times, even if he can't do any more damage (doubtful), failing to hold this bunch accountable is just leaving a loaded gun for the next (and maybe more competent) megalomaniac who gets in there.

The incumbant megalomaniac is going to leave?

Actually, the MSM would portray any serious Democratic attempt as an "extremist left-wing vengeance plot" to get political "pay-back for what Republicans did to Clinton." There would be ZERO substantive coverage of what actual charges existed or whether they were substantiated, along with frenzied denunciations of Democrats for "diverting our attention in the middle of a war", blah, blah, blah.

The Senate would reject it and the majority would vote against it. Probably even the majority of Democrats would vote not guilty.

Then the media and Republicans would crow about how Bush and Cheney were "exonerated". Jubilant Republicans would flock back to support the party against the Democrats in 2008 to "punish the Democrats for over-reaching." It would be a major theme in 2008 that the media would constantly refer to, in exactly the way that they DIDN'T mention Republican over-reaching in the Clinton impeachment during the 2000 election.

Conyers is absolutely right: it would be an absolute disaster.

Unless and until the MSM is broken up and forcibly divested so that some rational voices are introduced into the howling wilderness that is inside the beltway wisdom, there is no point in this useless exercise.

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